tallslenderguy

i haven't read the rest of the replies yet, so sorry if this turns out to be redundant. What you describe sounds polyamorous to me and not "strange" at all. I'd suggest you try polyamory sites for additional conversation and input. Gay relationship has not had the social advantages for evolution that straights have, i think we are at the beginning of figuring stuff out, but it can be a fun adventure and i appreciate what you are doing. i think an advantage can be that we don't have to start with preconceived notions adopted from the straight world (not saying you are doing that, but that sort of thing can be subtle). i suspect there are a lot more of us open to such relationships than any of us realizes. Many haven't "realized" it (yet?) because we haven't tried it? Idk. But i applaud your trying and discussing it. To me what you describe is just more refined and relationship oriented vs just hooking up. i don't think this has to do with quantity so much as it has to do with quality. i'm a bottom and similarly relationship oriented? For instance, i much prefer fb's to trying to arrange a hook up with someone i've never met. To me, having fb's is sort of in between poly and hook up sex, because there is a form of relationship between the Top and bottom, but they don't have relationships with each others fb's. i also am a bottom with decided sub tendencies. For instance, the idea of sleeping (literally) with a Top who i have the trust, because of relationship, where He can penetrate me anytime He needs or wants is very appealing. i'm literally imagining being asleep with this person and waking up in the middle of the night to Him sliding in. i have no doubt there are plenty of bottoms who would love that arrangement. You'll note that i identify "trust" and "relationship" as part of the ingredients, i think there are Tops and bottoms who want that. i also think that "fluid and honest communication" would be part of building something like that. i love kinky and imaginative sex that incorporates 'mind fuck,' that can be hard, or impossible, to explore in any depth with a hook up. i am not suggesting there is a right or wrong way to do any of this and i love that we are discussing this.

i know, right? As a bottom, i find even the thin walls restrictive, i want to be able to reach through and hold and stroke my Tops balls while i suck Him, and be able to take Him to the hilt. And, when He wants to breed, definitely want Him to have full access to my hole, thick walls and small gh's just do not accommodate that. ABS owners need to do surveys and learn from their customers what works, it'd be revolutionary lol.

I found this info (copied and pasted below) on WebMD... not a government site, but i think it's reliable info in this case. What the Results Mean A high viral load is generally considered about 100,000 copies, but you could have 1 million or more. The virus is at work making copies of itself, and the disease may progress quickly. A lower HIV viral load is below 10,000 copies. The virus probably isn't actively reproducing as fast, and damage to your immune system may be slowed, but this is not optimal.

If you were having sex before the internet, hook up 'sites' were usually public. like several here, i cannot count the number of public places i've been fucked because pretty much any place i had sex was public. Getting fucked in a public restroom or under a stall wall or through a glory hole in a mall was a daily ritual. A couple of places/times do stand out to me though. Once i was driving down a street and a guy pulls up next to me and looks me in the eyes, then pulled ahead and in front of me. i followed him into a Burger King parking lot. He got out, went inside and into the restroom. I followed. When i got in, he pulled my pants down, turned me around, unzipped his jeans, pulled his cock out and spat on it, then pushed in. Didn't take long for him to unload. He pulled out, zipped up and left with me standing in the middle of the restroom floor with my pants around my ankles. The other was a bridge over a river at a public park. It was a fairly long bridge, long enough to where you couldn't recognize someone if they were standing in the middle. I used to stand in the middle of the bridge at dusk, leaning on the rail looking out at the water sort of bent over. I would wear my shorts low enough to where my ass crack was exposed, sort of plummer style, for anyone who might be interested to notice, but not too obvious unless you were really looking. I could see when someone would enter the bridge from the corner of my eye, and if it was a guy and i'd hear him slow or pause as he was walking by, i'd subtly lower my shorts a little more. i was always lubed and ready, Cannot count the number of times a guy would come up behind me, no words exchanged, pull my shorts down to expose my hole, then breed me, finish and continue his walk.

lmao

This topic comes up fairly frequently here, i like all the stuff this community discusses, i think this is a great community. For me it's not the word that matters as much as the attitude and intent. The words we use to communicate are only a small percentage of communication, tone and visual cues make up the bigger part of communication. For instance, i've had guys use the word "cunt" with me and their attitude was pure lust, desire. Other guys say it and convey disdain, which sends a sort of opposite message using the same word. For me, words can serve a deeper purpose: to engage the mind and emotions in sex. Sex (for me) is always more intense with someone who knows how to fuck with their words as well as their body, turning words into another (or extension of their) cock. i see the emotional dynamic between Top/bottom as the Top wanting to take charge and control both His and His bottoms sex, and the bottom as the opposite. The Top the artist, the bottom the piece of art. Lots of analogies, none perfect. i'm not the least bit feminine. i have to tell people i am gay and have a lot more women come on to me than men. i have no desire AT ALL to be a woman, yet can get really turned on by a guy using words like "cunt" with me, depending on how He does it. When it's obvious to me that He is turned on by asserting power, i get turned on too. Force has the opposite effect on me. For me, brute force doesn't work, brings out the testosterone in me and i am liable to deck the guy who tries using it on me lol. But i've had Tops who have worked me (as part of the 'fuck') into a state of desire and then use terms that cause me to associate my state of desire with them. I'm not a cunt or a pussy, but i have had Tops who have mind fucked me into being one, and we both liked it.

i've was around a lot of drugs as a kid. my sister is 3 years older than me and i was sort of her and her best friends mascot. When i was 14, they'd get stoned every day before going to school. They had military boyfriends and they'd often party together with whatever was available, lots of hallucinogens. They'd all offer, i'd always decline. So i've had lots of experience observing people who are stoned. As a critical care nurse, i've also had lots of experience with people where it's gone bad and they have fried brains or hearts. i've cared for lots of people who used meth with completely destroyed hearts (they get ruined heart valves from infections from needles). Between the two experiences and what i have seen, drugs just scare me.

For me, this can work, not because force is necessary, but because of the dynamic that can be had between some Top/bottom guys. i've had Top guys who i had a trust relationship with could do a lot of stuff with. One of my favorite fantasies is being penetrated while i'm asleep, especially by someone i know. i love the idea of a relationship with a Top where we sleep together and any time through the night where He wants, i am there for Him. i love the idea of Him just sliding in any time He wants to unload or piss and just having the kind of connection and situation where He can do that.

Interesting... i know i don't hook as often. i didn't realize how much i used CL until it was gone. i suspect most of the guys who bred me from CL were 'straight' guys looking for a quick, easy hole to breed? Not going to find those guys on a gay app or site. It was pretty much always the same scenario, anonymous walk in where they would find me ass up and naked on my bed. Making it totally anonymous like that, where all they saw was my back side and i didn't see them at all, made a certain 'type' more comfortable? i can't count the hundreds of hook ups i did that way. Even many that became repeat fb's pretty much remained that scenario. CL was always about 50% flakes (if not more), but i also had a ton of successful hook ups, and that kept me using the site. my only semi reliable go to now is the ABS. That can be hit or miss like CL, but there is a definite 'hit' side to it. I think it is a similar crowd, especially depending on the time of day (before work, lunch break, right after work). Not unusual for me to go there and get half a dozen cocks in rapid succession. It''s GH sex, which is kinda hot but also a little frustrating having that wall restrict access. But i've also encountered the guys who live at the ABS, and they can kinda ruin things trying to compete. So weird when some guy will go around closing the doors in the booth next to you so that people will think it's occupied. Kinda pathetic.

Thanks bgr, So far, that's the most comprehensive test i have found, i need a lot more than just a urinalysis to be really tested. Was curious about what they do with gonnorhea since it requires both azithromycin (pills) and a shot of rocephin (i think). Test's in UK seem cheaper, something like 31 pounds for a single test that is $69 here. Even with the exchange difference, i think it's still cheaper in Europe... not surprised, or healthcare system is for profit.

Pretty much any hint that the guy is disingenuous. i hesitate if the guys profile says "versatile." i have nothing against a true versatile, as long as he is in the mood to top. i always ask if it bothers them that i am only bottom. i get frustrated at the number of guys who do not own who they are. Guys who are afraid to say what they want and want me to do all the work of communication. i hate it when a guy expects you to read his mind. Guys who seemingly haven't read my VERY EXPLICIT profile lol (that seems like a common one)

i did a google search "where to find an anal tattoo artist" and got over 3m results. Of course, they're not all artists, butt prolly find some amongst them ?

^^^This^^^ i think there are two sides to sex. The physical and the psychological. As bottoms, we still possess the anatomy and physiology associated with being able to breed and feel the physical pleasure of doing so. Psychologically? We're all over the map. Just read all the stuff written by guys on this site identifying as "bottom." I guess the same could be said about Tops? They too have the same anatomy and physiology as a bottom. Reminds me of the old joke: "if God had wanted men to have sex with each other, he would have given them assholes." So, it would seem to come down to the other head, the one on our shoulders vs the one between our legs. What KptNLine has written is like looking in a mirror for me. my want/desire to cum is strong, but it's almost like a substitute or compromise for my greater desire or want to be on the receiving end (both physically and psychologically). For me, cumming is always a mixed experience. On the one hand, it feels good, but on the other hand it is disappointing for me because , like KptNLine, it makes me less submissive and less horny. It is a physical release, but not a psychological one.

OMG, LMFAO. i have encountered just about every one of these and sometimes have gotten to the point that i am paranoid. I start forming conspiracy theories in my mind like some religious cult has fake guys on gay sites just to frustrate us. For me, one of the worst is when a guy chats you up and asks for your address then ghosts. I cannot count the number of times that's happened. I got to the place with some guys where if i suspected (more paranoia) they weren't legit, i wouldn't give my address, but a cross street, then tell them to text or email me when they got there and i'd give them the address. sigh, i do miss cruising on location.

As in "we hold these truths to be self evident...?" i think, in part, you answer your own question when you say: "I'm not crazy. People don’t have a right to nonconsensual contact with other people. It’s just that in this situation some of us believe that a right exist that is so natural and correct that our consent may be assumed." You imply that nonconsensual sex is "crazy." You list qualifiers that: "in this situation some of us believe...." i've often compared myself to a "bitch in heat." i remember as a kid seeing a bitch in heat and there were about 20 neighborhood male dogs outside her door wanting to breed her. i liked the image lol, so i use it to describe how i feel. As others have pointed out, not all bottoms feel the same way, so if we all suddenly had signs on us that unmistakably labeled us as "bottoms," it still wouldn't mean all bottoms "believe" that a Top has a "right" to breed them. "Belief" is individual, it's not equal to knowledge? For me there is a psychological side to this that may be generally common to all bottoms (and Tops) to some degree or another? I.e., (gay) bottoms want to receive a male into them, and (gay) Tops want to penetrate or put something of their self in another male. To me, that can have myriad expression, but it seems to come down to desire. Tops want to be the creators, the artists and bottoms want to be the creation, the canvas? Tops have a drive to make an impact, bottoms have a drive to be impacted lol. To me, putting it out there that any Top has a right to breed me is just a way increasing my odds of getting bred. Psychologically, i'll take any male who wants to breed me. The only connection i need is their desire to breed. For me, that falls short of them having a "right." For me it is just an expression of yin/yang, of opposites attracting. One of the most extreme fantasies i have is being taken and bred when asleep. Consciously, the fantasy is a total turn on for me. But if i suddenly woke up, surprised by a stranger, i might kick the hell out of them. Sex, being bred, is never a threat to me, but other things might be and if i do not know His intent, i might feel threatened and respond. But if the only intent is sexual Topping, my legs are open.

ok, after some searching i found this test... the one reviewer gave it a bad review, but the company has good ratings elsewhere. It is really expensive but it does cover all the bases, wondering if there are other companies that offer the same? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZAQEVB/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Anyone else ever use a home test for STD's? I have done the online purchase where you go to a lab, but i have noticed there are now tests available that you can do at home and mail in. What i haven't seen is tests that cater to the gay population? I'd like to test more frequently for gonnorhea and chlamydia since they are so common, but that would involve an anal and oral swab and the home tests i have seen test urine. I guess if you get the test for a woman (vaginal swab?) that could be used, but i don't know how site specific the tests are. Ideally, would want to test urethral, anal and oral each time. Anyone have experience using home tests available for those?

i've easily been with over 1000 guys and taken their loads annally over a 30 year period, i didn't become poz until 3 years ago. There seems to be a human desire to be able to put things in black and white terms, to have definitive answers to our questions. i think science, and medical science in particular, has done some amazing things, come up with some remarkable answers. i'm a critical care nurse, so i am in the thick of things when it comes to medicine and healing. i am not a infectious disease specialist, but i practice the healing arts, and certain realities apply to all of us. Right now, the body is an infinite universe. We can narrow things down enough to come up with meds like anti virals, but it doesn't mean we understand or can quantify every aspect of the HIV disease process. Which is to say, while there are things that may be the same for everyone, there are also things that differ and we don't know enough to identify all those things. We do know that we can take a pill and essentially prevent ourselves from getting infected (PreP). We now know that suppressed/undetecable = no risk for transmission. Of course, that doesn't mean that just because a person says they are on Prep or undetectable, that they are telling the truth. The only person you can know about for sure is you. You could take PreP. i'm sure you know all or most of this. Like your self, i thought i knew what i had to do (get on PreP), and i was actually going through the testing process to get on PreP when i found out i am poz. Now i am on meds, undetectable. i didn't want to be poz, but i figure i dodged the bullet for a long time and feel no regrets. To me, it's just all a part of living and i am grateful we live in an era where HIV doesn't mean AID's or the end of sex.

The nature of sexual attraction (or "attraction" period) has a mysterious side to it. i don't fault anyone for not being attracted to me, i don't really see attraction as a choice. i agree that there is a cultural element, but i don't think that's all there is to it? i mean, every caveat we put on our list of who we will fuck, narrows that list down. i don't know of any guy who wants a 'narrowed down list' lol. For various reasons, most of my sex with guys has always been anonymous where they pretty much only see my back side, so looks figures less into it, or just he looks of my back side. And frankly, i'm face down, so looks doesn't figure in to the equation at all for me. Having said that, if a guy wants to kiss, what matters for me changes, just different criteria of attraction. On the occasions when i do breed, age doesn't figure in at all. i have a fb who is getting close to 70 and he has the silkiest, sweetest, well shaped ass. Age just doesn't matter because i am only focused on his ass.

my first was about 12 or 13, but that was only one... took awhile before the others showed up.

Wanted to include the definition of untrabnsmittable because there are several tests now and some are very sensitive. Essentially, the evidence is based on viral load suppressed to "less than 200 copies/ml or undetectable levels."

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/899892?src=wnl_tp10hc_180921_mscpedit_aids&uac=&impID=1746509&faf=1#vp_3 1. "When ART results in viral suppression, defined as less than 200 copies/ml or undetectable levels, it prevents sexual HIV transmission. Across three different studies, including thousands of couples and many thousand acts of sex without a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), no HIV transmissions to an HIV-negative partner were observed when the HIV-positive person was virally suppressed. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load have effectively no risk of sexually transmitting the virus to an HIV-negative partner." U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC), Dear Colleague Letter (September, 2017)

Yeah, think you are right about the confusion. A guy without his penis is a nullo. Check out this vid https://www.xtube.com/video-watch/nullo-male-dildo-fucking-11984771 I've seen several nullo vids where the guy orgasms and cums from his slit and it's hot as hell. Like others have indicated, a guy without testicles can still orgasm and cum, it's just seminal and prostate fluid without fluid and sperm from the testes. Personally, the idea of being nullo both scares the fuck out of me and excites me. It is something i have fantasized about and has a lot of mind fuck implications for me. One thing i have thought of is sort of a reversal where the cock is removed but not the balls. That would leave a guy with all his testosterone and drive without the cock to exercise it, it would automatically refocus his center of pleasure, probably on his slit? Would be even hotter, in my mind, if the testicles could be implanted into the body somehow, as though they had never descended, so he'd still have all the hormone and drive of a male without the equipment. For me, a big part of being bottom is the psychological component, what i think of as "mind fuck." i've connected with some Tops who i synch with in this way, where Top and bottom is not just a physical thing, it's a psychological disposition. And like most orientation, it seems Top and bottom guys are on a (somewhat fluid?) spectrum individually. For me, things like castration and nullo fall into this spectrum. i am not a transgender person. i have no desire to be female or be identified as female. Which is not to suggest that i see anything 'wrong' or 'bad' about that, it's just not where i am coming from. For me the dynamic of Top and bottom ventures into Dom/sub, but i hesitate to use those words because of their oft presumed meaning. i think those fall on a spectrum too. For me, one of the biggest components of the dynamic is the Top or Dom who wants to be in control of both His and His partners sexual pleasure. A bottom/sub is someone who wants to give control of his sexual pleasure to his partner. The dynamic of relationship between the two involves that exchange and how it happens. i don't think it's 'that simple,' tons of ramifications and variations. For instance, i see some guys on both ends of the spectrum who really get into force, and almost seem confused by a Dom or sub who eschews force. And here's where i come full circle in this topic exploration. One of the most powerful Dom/Top guys i have encountered explained to me that the most valuable gift a bottom could ever give to Him was to become nullo. He told me it was something He'd never ask or demand, and it was that that scared the fuck out of me, because His attitude and desire had the effect of evoking my desire to please Him. To me, castration or nullo is a sort of ultimate and permanent example of the dynamic.

i think this is a great question and appreciate all the answers!! i find myself mostly nodding and relating to the answers FelchingPisser and sthrnguy wrote. Coming from a deeply religious and 'traditional' background that took 'monogamy' beyond sexuality, i have become very grateful for my sexual orientation because the realities of who and how i am have taught me to question the status quo and pretty much freed me from their constraints. To me, the notion that any one person can be everything the other person needs or wants was born in the hetero world and was perpetuated by Disney. Given the divorce rate, i'd say there is good reason to question the idea. i think a lot of couples split because instead of making allowances for each to get what they need from someone who wants to give it, instead the expectation that each will become what the other needs/wants? In my experience, that is a formula for frustration and resentment and turns the relationship into quid pro quo. On the other hand, i could see myself in a relationship like sthrnguy, where if each of our make up was very complimentary of each others, i can see some advantages. For instance, depth of kink interaction.

i'd proffer that untreated HIV that turns into AID's will curb ones lustful pleasure, as will the insanity that can occur from untreated syphillis. i think shame can curb lustful pleasure and it is imposed by some forms of culture, stuck in Victorian mentality. If that keeps people from getting tested and treated for disease, that mentality has won. To me, the 'Victorians' have still accomplished their purpose of punishment if they manage to discourage treatment. Whether the reason is rebellion or shame, the end physical result is the same. i think a good way to say "fuck you" to those who would shame sexually free people is for populations like the gay community to be the healthiest, not the sickest. i know this will never happen, but what if ass a community, every LGBQTI (i.e., marginalized) person simply got tested and treated every 3 months? What would happen, if there was 100% compliance, is diseases like syphillis, chlamydia and gonorrhea would be virtually gone and one wouldn't get those infections no matter how much sex they had. Some would have us believe that irradiation, or reduction of a particular STI can only happen through abstinence. The truth is, that only isolates or restricts the disease, and those who have it. Treatment can eradicate a disease if people will simply be treated.